Moments of Permanence - Mammothfail: An explanation for the hard-of-thinking

From: rubyfruit Date: May 20th, 2009 02:17 am (UTC) (Link)

All right, do you mind if I sit out on this fail? At all? If I let myself get involved in this, it will make me want to throw things at people/walls/ screens.

Then again, I'm not even in this neck of the Fandom Woods, so I think I'll stay the hell out of it.

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From: sami Date: May 20th, 2009 02:56 am (UTC) (Link)

I think, rather than me, you should be taking this up with whoever it is is holding a gun to your head making you read this entry, or post in reply.

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From: rubyfruit Date: May 20th, 2009 03:00 am (UTC) (Link)

No, no, it's an interesting topic, it's just a whole lot to process for someone not quite schooled in the topic of alt-history.

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From: rubyfruit Date: May 20th, 2009 03:14 am (UTC) (Link)

In specific, I didn't want to just leap into something and be angry about it without knowing what it is that makes me angry. I mean, I'm not in the sci-fi/fantasy/alt-history fandom, but the topic itself was all over my friendslist here and on InsaneJournal, and I was directed here by one of those friends who said that this entry was a good place to start. So if my previous comment sounded bad, I apologize.

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From: sami Date: May 20th, 2009 03:16 am (UTC) (Link)

Okay, that makes more sense. So are you wanting me to explain further, or...?

This post is long, but I would argue it makes a better introduction to what actually started all this.

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From: rubyfruit Date: May 20th, 2009 03:50 am (UTC) (Link)

Thanks for the link. That one cleared up a lot of stuff.

...I really don't think I want to read The Thirteenth Child. I made okay grades in History, and I still have to wonder how an author can either ignore or wave away with magic, the historical impact of pretending an entire race of people didn't exist. It's like...everything that can go wrong, basically did, at least writing-wise.

And reason-wise.

I had just wanted to get the whole picture on this issue.

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From: sami Date: May 21st, 2009 03:11 am (UTC) (Link)

I'm sorry I responded so crankily - there's been a lot of hostile reaction from people to the very concept of this discussion taking place, which is what I thought you were saying, and - not that this is an excuse - your comment landed when I was in a rather grumpy and hostile mood myself.

And yeah, that's basically the problem. It gets worse, in terms of being able to think that Wrede wasn't being horrible herself, if you look over comments she made during the planning stages. It's really, really hard to make a case that she doesn't actually hold some very unpleasant attitudes, herself.

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From: rubyfruit Date: May 21st, 2009 04:51 am (UTC) (Link)

That's perfectly all right.

To me, this discussion needs to take place, considering how disturbing Ms. Wrede's attitudes seem, now that I've read more on it.

(I start to ramble a bit after this. If I make no sense, I apologize.)

Ms. Wrede's responses and Director's Commentary (I don't know the proper name for it) just makes me twitch for some reason. I know that a writer is not their work and the worldviews held by their characters are not necessarily those of the author behind them. But when someone tries to justify simply whisking a whole people out of existence because of wishful thinking or to "play with cool megafauna"...makes me twitchy for so many reasons. One point that sticks out to me is that even if it is difficult to write a different culture from one's own without falling into stereotypes used by authors who have gone before, pretending that those cultures do not exist isn't the solution. It's just creates more problems, not to mention the fact that it magnifies even larger problems, such as her using language that basically dismisses Native Americans as a threat, or as "nonhuman". That's just...I have no words for that. None at all.

I'm sorry again if that made no sense, or if I've rambled.

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From: sami Date: May 22nd, 2009 12:11 pm (UTC) (Link)

Rambling is totally okay - seriously, if you've looked at my posts, you gotta know that this journal is the natural habitat of teal deer.

And yeah, it's the Director's Commentary (I like that term) that makes this quite so problematic.

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From: rubyfruit Date: May 23rd, 2009 12:54 am (UTC) (Link)

The little kid in me that has always wanted a pet dinosaur thinks that it'd be awesome if the native people of the Western Hemisphere domesticated the "cool megafauna". If it hasn't been done before, and if no one else wants to write it, then I am totally tempted to do so. But I am weird.

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From: sami Date: May 20th, 2009 03:14 am (UTC) (Link)

Right, but why do you need to comment just to tell me/us how you don't want to get involved? Why ask if I "mind"? I have no idea who you are. We're not friends and to the best of my knowledge you're not involved in any community I care about = I have no reason to care what you do or don't do.

You're welcome to read anything I or anyone else posts publically. You'd be welcome to open discussion on any point I raise (though my answer will depend on available time and will, etc), and most people would say the same, but I don't get why you need to comment to point out your wish not to get involved.

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