Moments of Permanence - I said I wouldn't, but apparently I can't not.

From: sqbr Date: June 25th, 2009 02:53 am (UTC) (Link)

This whole conversation has made so incredibly angry, because I've seen the effects this sort of thing has on you and I can't stand that people think primarily of those sorts of effects as an inconvenience to them.

I don't think you're weak, any more than I'm weak for not going on protest rallies to support disability rights or whatever: the problem is the problem, and the problem is the reason we're not able to do much to speak up about the problem. It's horrible, but it's not our fault. (I hope this doesn't come across as appropriating your experience, but I get depressed about similar things myself sometimes) And you can't fight every injustice all the time!

You do what you have to do to keep yourself safe. And now I am more inspired than I was before to rant about this myself, because I am angry, and I'm not putting myself in any danger (beyond getting more angry :/) by discussing it.

I don't think I can post about this without mentioning the fact that I KNOW at least one person on my list will be triggered by anything I don't warn for, but after seeing the vile way people have spoken to survivors in some of these threads I'll be careful to be as vague as possible so you're not drawn into the conversation unless you decide you want to be.

(All of this assumes I get around to writing it. Did you see my "84 unfinished drafts" post yesterday? :))

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sqbr Date: June 25th, 2009 03:50 am (UTC) (Link)

Also: (since I can't edit posts) Do not feel under any obligation to read or comment on any post I make on a topic you don't feel up to dealing with (or any other topic!) There's a reason I try to remember to put this sort of thing under a cut, and it's so you and other people don't have to deal with it if you don't want to.

(Reply) (Parent)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 04:23 am (UTC) (Link)

You're welcome, if you get around to it, to speak of what you know of my experiences. Hell, identify me if you want; if people attack me, that reflects much, much more on them than on me.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: sqbr Date: June 25th, 2009 12:46 pm (UTC) (Link)

If people attack me, that reflects much, much more on them than on me.

Absolutely. But I still think that, all things being equal, "That which does not end with sami being attacked" is the preferable option :)

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 01:31 pm (UTC) (Link)

But then I could relax with furious rage. >.>

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: sqbr Date: June 27th, 2009 01:51 am (UTC) (Link)

I think you can find enough sources of furious rage without my help :)

(Reply) (Parent)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 04:52 am (UTC) (Link)

To elaborate slightly: I wouldn't say it's appropriating my experience to talk about how you've seen how this affects people. It's a major part of the background to my total breakdown last year from which I'm *still* recovering.

And yeah, you've seen some of what this stuff does to me, the kind of damage it does not just to me, but to people around me who care about me. It's full of fail.

(Reply) (Parent)

From: rainbow Date: June 25th, 2009 02:55 am (UTC) (Link)

Keep yourself safe, Sami. I don't know you well (yet!), but I care a *lot* about you, and I want to keep getting to know you better. Selfish, I know, but you *matter* to me.

*Most* of fandom is on our side. The level of outrage against the folks dismissing survivors? Is HUGE and warming. Most ppl get that fandom is huge community we share and that we owe consideration and respect and human decency to each other.

The number of people being (choose one or more) dismissive, snide, hurtful, hateful, trying to shut up survivors, wave their privilege around, etc is a tiny percentage, thank all things good.

If it would be helpful to read some of those posts and you want links, let me know.

Here's some things I need reminding of myself from time to time. I don't know if you know them for yourself or not..

You are strong. It is NOT weak to know your limits and take care of yourself -- it is *strong*. I am proud to know you even though it's only a tiny bit. You are fierce and goodhearted. You call ppl on privilege wehn you can (thank you!) and when you unintentionally hurt someone you apologise sincerely. That is Strength.

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 06:58 am (UTC) (Link)

Thank you. I really appreciate this.

Chas was telling me that the odds are the Side of Right will win this, but also reminding me it's not my fight to make.

I appreciate the offer of links, but at this point, at least, I don't really have the will to go into any of it.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: rainbow Date: June 25th, 2009 03:12 pm (UTC) (Link)

You're very, very welcome.

(Reply) (Parent)

From: lady_ganesh Date: June 26th, 2009 02:32 am (UTC) (Link)

You are strong. It is NOT weak to know your limits and take care of yourself -- it is *strong*.

YES. It's sometimes the hardest thing to do!

(Reply) (Parent)

From: willow Date: June 25th, 2009 02:55 am (UTC) (Link)

*hugs* I got caught up in explaining what I thought was going on, I forgot to tap you gently on the head and say 'You don't need to fight for this'.

Heck I don't need to fight for this. It's a sore ass, incredibly painful and trauma filled space. Which is why I've been posting my reaction as upset and more upset and not really analyzing ANY damn thing, until I started replying to you and the words clicked for the thoughts in my head.

It's always easier to fight for something that doesn't hurt as much in general, far less something that hurts as much as this. This is soul hurt and yeah, nonsurvivors, effing clueless.

And hurting but staying safe? Is continuing to survive. It's being involved in a different kind of battle, and you don't need to be defending two fronts.

Staying safe ALWAYS takes priority.

That said, Fandom can DEFINITELY go explode somewhere into many messy bits, for being so incredibly UGLY towards individuals who're already underneath so much unwanted/unasked for baggage.

Community of supportive women my flat ass!

*more hugs*

Also a link to one of my comfort things (It's a Mazda Commercial)

(Reply) (Thread)

From: willow Date: June 25th, 2009 02:59 am (UTC) (Link)

The english version (it has a different beat - more Caribbean)

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 07:02 am (UTC) (Link)

:O

Now the zoom-zoom song is going to get stuck in my head. ;)

(Reply) (Parent)

From: starshadow Date: June 25th, 2009 12:07 pm (UTC) (Link)

I remember these commercials!

(Reply) (Parent)

From: eisen Date: June 25th, 2009 03:53 am (UTC) (Link)

Fuck you, fandom. I don't need this.

You seriously don't.

God, I don't fucking know.

I'm glad you're "safe" (as safe as anyone can be under the circumstances; that you're not letting the situation break you like it could easily do at any moment). I am ... to say I'm "not glad" is an understatement; to say I hope someone burns for this is overkill; I am righteously angry and hurt that people are trying to say your safety is an inconvenience to them.

What the fuck. I can't deal with this shit sober, and I have no triggers to trigger; that you're even dealing with it at all when you do have triggers is more than should be asked of you.

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 07:01 am (UTC) (Link)

Thank you.

I really don't get that whole argument. That other people being harmed is okay, so long as it doesn't mess with someone's ease and convenience. Didn't we just have this argument in RaceFail, for real?

(Reply) (Parent)

From: nicki Date: June 25th, 2009 04:51 am (UTC) (Link)

*hugs* There are some people being fuckwits on this issue. You speak up on racism, sexism, etc because you can. Someone else out there can't, but they can speak up on warnings and triggering.

It's like you've broken your ankle and can't run the marathon, but you can still bench-press. Would you feel guilty about not being able to run the marathon on your broken ankle?

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 07:00 am (UTC) (Link)

Realistically, I possibly would, but that's an ongoing problem Chas headdesks about. ;)

I'm choosing now to view this as the purpose of alliance. I speak up when I can, try to be an ally, because it's the right thing to do - in doing so, I'm of help to people who may be silenced for various reasons themselves. When things like this come up, I can't handle it - but other people can, and so, then, they are my allies.

This is what good people do in the world.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: nicki Date: June 25th, 2009 08:28 am (UTC) (Link)

This is what good people do in the world

ITA.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 01:32 pm (UTC) (Link)

ITA?

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: velithya Date: June 25th, 2009 04:23 pm (UTC) (Link)

I totally agree, I think

(Reply) (Parent)

From: nicki Date: June 25th, 2009 09:47 pm (UTC) (Link)

Velithya is right, it's "I Totally Agree."

(Reply) (Parent)

From: piscinarii Date: June 25th, 2009 06:10 am (UTC) (Link)

You are NOT weak, not even close to it.

/hugs

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 25th, 2009 07:00 am (UTC) (Link)

Thank you.

(Reply) (Parent)

From: elspethdixon Date: June 25th, 2009 03:50 pm (UTC) (Link)

*hugs* I completely understand how the discussion itself could be triggering -- discussing warning for assault and abuse in fic has essentially involved mentioning and discussing abuse and assault and people's reactions to and recovery from it over and over (this time around - previous warning debates have focussed on other things, but previus debates were often more about warning for squicks, not for things that can trigger PTSD). And the handful of people loudly dismissing various survivors who are triggered's concerns can't possibly help. (Impertinance's post was very powerful and also very educational for me as a reader who doesn't have any sexual assault or abuse-related triggers, but my God the comments contain a lot of fail)

*giving you the hug icon instead of the fallenshield rage icon*

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 27th, 2009 03:06 pm (UTC) (Link)

:iconlove:

I haven't read that post, or comments - I'm deliberately avoiding the topic as much as I can for reasons that are probably clear.

I really appreciate the support though. It's a tremendous relief that people are taking on the fight, you know? And that people aren't thinking less of people like me because I/we can't.

(Reply) (Parent)

From: susanreads Date: June 25th, 2009 07:55 pm (UTC) I'm sorry people are being jerks (Link)

I spent a couple of days not commenting on the grounds that I'm not involved, because I don't write fic and I have no triggers; I've gradually realised that my not-having-triggers privilege means I should say something.

One thing I can say is that it's not your job to educate people, especially when they're being entitled arsewipes. And you do it anyway, just by writing honestly about your life. "Not being able to handle it right now" is the best of all reasons for not getting involved. It certainly beats my "I'm rubbish at time management and I don't know what to say".

Also, keeping yourself safe is the top priority. You don't owe anybody the benefit of the doubt! If they think you're weak, that just proves they're not worth your time.

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 27th, 2009 03:08 pm (UTC) Re: I'm sorry people are being jerks (Link)

I saw you'd posted on the topic. I didn't read in detail, but I'm glad you did.

*hugs or meta-huggish things*

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: susanreads Date: June 27th, 2009 05:07 pm (UTC) Re: I'm sorry people are being jerks (Link)

Thanks! And thanks for the meta-huggish things (I'm OK with internet hugs; it's when people are doing it in RL that I worry about my back).

I'll be adding to the post; I wonder if I should hide part of it under a cut. There are definitely some links you don't want to follow.

(Reply) (Parent)

From: lady_ganesh Date: June 26th, 2009 04:20 am (UTC) (Link)

I am so sorry about this. Why do people feel so obligated to be assholes? And why are they so loudabout it?

::offers hugs, if you'd like::

(Reply) (Thread)

From: sami Date: June 27th, 2009 03:09 pm (UTC) (Link)

Thank you. *hugs back*

It's just... seriously, it's the privilege thing writ large, it really is.

(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

From: lady_ganesh Date: June 28th, 2009 12:39 am (UTC) (Link)

I'm sorry it's been so hurtful.

(Reply) (Parent)