 Layers of Faith
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Jun. 23rd, 2009 @ 10:53 pm 
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So, this evening I went to this: (Im)Possible Faith: Atheism, Agnosticism and Belief.
It was an interesting evening, on a range of levels - all three of the panellists were quite moderate, and quite interesting people in their own right. Dr Colette Livermore, representing atheism, is a doctor now, but was once a Missionaries of Charity nun who worked with Mother Teresa. Tracy Ryan is a novelist/poet and self-proclaimed agnostic.
And, representing the faithful, we had the remarkable A/Prof Sister Veronica Brady, who opened by saying she felt she too is an agnostic. (Because she doesn't believe a human can fully know and understand the meaning of God.) I spoke to her briefly at the end - she remains wonderful.
I'd forgotten to take pen and paper, so my notes are very brief, written in whiteboard marker on a Zoo flyer I had in my bag.
Tracy Ryan's introductory remarks were interesting, and in places wildly problematic. For instance, she said that her parents had been part of a British colonial family in India, so her mostly-Catholic upbringing had included a light version of some yogic teachings. As far as I could tell, she hasn't thought in any real sense about colonialism, appropriation, or the degree to which she can legitimately claim understanding of yogic teachings at all. Meanwhile, talking about Christ, she said that she thought, from a feminist perspective, that the idea of putting others before yourself was problematic, because women are often asked to put their own needs second already.
To me, you can't go down that path and just look it only as far as it affects women who are not otherwise disempowered, when Christianity's role in colonial power dynamics has been so huge. It's just... her ideas are too unexamined and vague, I think, and I suddenly have a very real sense of why certain people have a problem with mainstream feminism and its blank ignoring of issues beyond white middle-class women.
Sister Veronica Brady talked about how you can't define God for other people - she's really not your traditional Roman Catholic, but her way of talking about this stuff seems so right and sensible. I don't have detailed enough notes to do it justice.
Audience question period brought some serious aggravation, especially in the form of Prepared Statement Woman.
By the way she reacted as she took the mic from the moderator - something about her insipid smile, perhaps - I pegged her instantly as a nutbag, and then thought I was being horribly judgemental and uncharitable. Turns out, I should trust my instincts.
She had several pages of notes and prepared statements, opening with her reading out her own Statement of Faith - which had five subsections detailing her personal religious beliefs. And then she went on, and on, rambling about crap that made no freaking sense, until an audience that had gathered for discussion about faith in a way that was open to the belief spectrum was starting to laugh at her, and heckle her to sit down and stop talking, already. After the third time the moderator tried and failed to get her to wrap it up and ASK AN ACTUAL QUESTION, I got up and took the mic with force of personality and will.
At that point, she was expressing her view that the Catholic Church attacks abortion because it's a female sin, and ignores war because it's a male sin, and the way to end warfare and bring about peace on earth is to genetically modify men to reduce their hormonal impulses.
No, really.
After that I asked my question, and other people asked actual questions, and the discussion was interesting, although a few other audience members were also kind of irritating.
I'll probably post more about some of these topics later - right now I'm tired and a bit too irritated by certain things.
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| From: | ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png) trouble |
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| Date: |
June 23rd, 2009 04:15 pm (UTC) |
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I wish I had been able to go to that, as it matches with some of my interests.
I'm not sure if I've told you/made clear/whatever, but Don is ... well, he gets irritated when I say he's Christian, but he follows the teachings of Jesus (who he believes was a great Rabbi, but not the Son of G-d). Religion and faith are of a great deal of interest to me, although I don't really have either. (I feel this is a lack in my life.)
She had several pages of notes and prepared statements, opening with her reading out her own Statement of Faith - which had five subsections detailing her personal religious beliefs.
I'm cringing just hearing about it. And feeling sympathy for the panel moderators, because it's always difficult when someone hijacks a panel like that.
Christianity is in the weird position of being a religion that is theologically very... hmm revolutionary and liberal are both not the right word, but it's a religion that stresses highly that all people's souls/basic worth are equal, that the earth's inequities will be corrected in the hereafter (the last shall be first and the first shall be last, blessed are the poor/the meek/the persecuted/those who mourn, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, etc.), that one should not judge others -- and yet it's been used as an excuse to justify slavery (okay, that was as much the old testament as the new, but Biblical justification for slavery were very popular in the 18th/19th century American South), colonialism, and widespread misogynistic and homophobic intolerance today.
I will not start on Evangelical Christianity and Protestantism: You're Doing It Wrong, because that's another rant (one of the original purposes of Protestantism was that people shouldn't blindly follow whatever church leaders told them, and what do hardline Protestants do now...)
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| From: | nicki |
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| Date: |
June 23rd, 2009 08:25 pm (UTC) |
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Sister Veronica Brady talked about how you can't define God for other people - she's really not your traditional Roman Catholic, but her way of talking about this stuff seems so right and sensible.
There is a significant minority in the academic/social justice wing of the Catholic Church (in the US at least and I suspect in most of the world) who pretty much espouse a similar belief. Unfortunately they are often not part of the parish churches, or at least not part of the suburban regular parish churches I've attended (you can sometimes find them in parish churches that a university belongs to, but I am not driving 2 hrs each way to attend mass at the church my brother attends).
You know that everyone in that audience and sitting on that panel said a hearty "Thank you!" in their head when you grabbed that mic!
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