Moments of Permanence - Good people do bad things: demonising Them is not the answer

From: sami Date: May 22nd, 2009 12:45 pm (UTC) (Link)

I don't think you read these interviews critically enough.

Wow. You know, I'm trying to stay with civil discourse here, but just for the record? That's a statement I have trouble replying to in a way that's even vaguely polite.

Point the first: The initial interviews are recorded in a book by Gitta Sereny, who does a whole lot of critical assessment herself. The degree to which the evidence backs up his claims, for a start, is something that she examines.

I've read the book. I've also read quite a lot of other books, so as to be able to look critically not just at Stangl's claims, but at Sereny's analysis. Because this? Is what I do. Your apparent determination to do exactly what I'm arguing against - assume that people who do profoundly evil things are inherently evil people - does not automatically invalidate my argument, and it sure as hell does not give you the right to assume that I don't critically appraise my sources, that I post bad history.

If you want to make those kinds of claims, bring evidence, thanks.

The current pope also perceived his family to be at risk if he didn't join the Nazi party. He did not feel compelled to repudiate the Church.

Sorry, did Joseph Ratzinger, who turned 18 in 1945, at the end of the Second World War, somehow also join the police force of the Third Reich? No? Okay then, I'm assuming we're both clear that this point is completely irrelevant.

But there is a difference between turning your face away and refusing to perceive what is happening to your neighbors and joining an actively racist organization. The Nazi party was an anti-Semitic party.

You. Don't. Say.

One of the less-secret aspects of the history of the Third Reich is that anyone in public service - police, teachers, university professors, civil servants - was de facto required to join the Nazi Party. Those who did not would at best be out of work, and at worst, be made to "disappear" by the Gestapo.

Added to that, generalised anti-Semitic sentiments were not actually a particularly good indicator of a person's character. Not after years of reasonably skilful, extremely widespread and active anti-Semitic propaganda. There's a reason why the German people who participated in efforts to assist the survival of Jewish people were the exception rather than the rule.

People don't "become evil."

And here, clearly, is a point of fundamental disagreement. My entire argument is that good people, if they are not watchful, can be corrupted, and can do unconscionable things. You, clearly, believe that some people are just inherently evil.

I think that viewpoint is both wrong and dangerous.

If someone has murdered at least a million people, you might reasonably be skeptical of whether that person can reliably report his own motivations.

Indeed. However, you also might reasonably conclude that it is in fact possible to derive realistic assessments of his motivations from the combination of his statements, the statements of others, and recorded evidence surrounding the events in question.

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