Moments of Permanence - Derailment Redux: Lois McMaster Bujold Hypocrisy Special Edition

From: antarcticlust.livejournal.com Date: May 11th, 2009 03:48 pm (UTC) Re: Megafauna & first nations (Link)

I'm a paleoecologist, and the megafauanl extinction (both the cause and the ecological impacts) is the topic of my dissertation. There is actually quite a lot of evidence to support the overkill hypothesis, including the relative timing of the extinction on each continent as soon as humans arrived, the size- and species-selectivity of the extinction (only mammals, and only large mammals - essentially no birds, amphibians, plants, etc.) and the fact that megafauna had survived at least a dozen glacial-interglacial cycles without going extinct. For a good review on these data, see:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/306/5693/70

and especially

http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.ecolsys.34.011802.132415?journalCode=ecolsys

There is not any one climatic event associated with the extinctions, whether it be warming or the Younger Dryas cold period (the latter has essentially been completely refuted by the timing, and the Impact Event theory is laughable - terrible science and speculation backed up with no real data).

In The Ecological Indian, Stephen Krech makes an interesting case about buffalo and native notions of ecology. An Indian ecology would not necessarily have included notions of carrying capacity, predator-prey dynamics, etc., and to suggest that they did is to overlook their own mythologies and cultural beliefs. If bison were believed to migrate annually to an Otherworld, where they were eternally replenished, then there would be no need for conservation. There is definitely a danger in essentializing Native Americans as "inherently ecological."

Alroy (http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/292/5523/1893) did a simulation that showed that small groups and low-intensive hunting pressure can reproduce the observed pattern of extinction, which was actually quite rapid ecologically. Hundreds of communities of hunting humans could easily have finished what climate-induced environmental change began - meaning, megafauanal populations may have bottlenecked during rapid climate shifts, but does it really make sense for highly mobile animals to die off when food is becoming MORE abundant?

The discussion about whether or not the overkill hypothesis is racist is an interesting one, and is important. I find it fascinating that ecologists and climatologists tend to cite hunting as the cause of the extinction, whereas most climate-proponents are anthropologists. However, I would argue that a) Native Americans are not the same as Clovis and other late-Pleistocene cultures any more than Europeans are, though both are descended from them. The people that colonized North America were culturally very similar to those who were inhabiting Europe at the same time, and according to the overkill hypothesis caused the extinction of the megafauna in Europe, as well.

I definitely don't want to side-track the discussion, but just wanted to chime in for any interested parties on the current state of the debates on the extinctions (obviously the mammoths et al. are fascinating or Wrede's book wouldn't have been written). Personally, I will NOT be reading the book because of the tidy removal of the Native Americans, which I find obscene. If you want to write a book with mastodons, there are so many more thoughtful and respectful ways to do it that don't involve sweeping the already-marginalized survivors of genocide under the rug.

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From: sami Date: May 12th, 2009 12:23 am (UTC) Re: Megafauna & first nations (Link)

Interesting.

Thank you for this comment - it's edifying, and I will highlight it in my next post, though, as you acknowledge, it's not really the point regarding The Thirteenth Child. (Then again, part of why I'm doing this post series is basically to give a centralised point for blocking attempted derails. It's working for me, at least, because in more than one case my response to people bringing various beside-the-point stuff into the discussion is just: "Been done. Here." with a link to the post. So, you know, I actually am in favour of localised sidetracking, sort of.)

After all, the problem is not just sweeping aside the survivors - it's also her stated assumption that this doesn't make a major difference to the way the history pans out, which... hell no.

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From: antarcticlust.livejournal.com Date: May 12th, 2009 03:41 am (UTC) Re: Megafauna & first nations (Link)

If you're interested, and having trouble finding free versions of the articles I linked (I wanted to provide abstracts as well as merely journal references) I'm happy to provide them. Again, I realize I got excited about a topic near and dear to my grad student heart, and so I thank you for taking the time to humor my unintentional side-track! I certainly hope no one uses my arguments to justify Wrede - I meant to come across as saying "See, it doesn't even matter if paleoindians could have killed off the megafauna - the premise is STILL RACIST AND OFFENSIVE!" But I fear that got a bit lost in my geeky fervor.

Thank you for your thoughtful commentary!

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From: sami Date: May 12th, 2009 04:06 am (UTC) Re: Megafauna & first nations (Link)

Heh, I have institutional access too, so I for one shouldn't have a problem - but thank you. I do want to check those out.

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