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Seriously, if anyone spoils me in the next two hours I will cut them
There are several things I want to post about, I think, but I have brain ferrets this afternoon and I'm saving all the spoons I can to go see Star Trek tonight (yay! including for not having to dodge spoilers any more, especially since I got one in a medical science-related blogpost from a dude who issued a spoiler and then said "don't worry, I won't give away anything more about the movie - TOO LATE, JERK), so a vaguely rambly reflection I would really rather NOT see linked in Mammothfail contexts because bringing new authors into this is only going to make things messier, seriously, but it's what I'm thinking about right now, so I'm still posting about it.
One of the things with Race/Mammothfail, for me, is realising:
1) That I have lost touch with sf/F quite thoroughly. I think the most recent writer I've developed a love for is Connie Willis.
2) That I didn't really engage with print fandom before, either.
Most of the names that have come up in recent discussions are just completely unfamiliar to me, or familiar in it-turns-out inaccurate ways. I thought Scalzi was just a blogger; I had some vague inclination that he was a novelist too, but from his comments on his blog I'd decided that, for my tastes, he was likely to be a very bad one, and dismissed him out of hand. I'd never heard of Elizabeth Bear, although it turned out at least one of my friends had read at least one of her books. I don't think I know anyone who's read anything by Shetterly, but on the other hand, based on the things he writes online... I don't think anyone I know would actually want to.
However, some names are familiar to me, and I've been learning things I never considered about them before. Steven Barnes is black, apparently. The only stuff of his I've read was co-written with Larry Niven; I'm not sure how, or if, that fact alters my perception of those stories. (The biggest role he seems to play in co-writing with Larry Niven is giving characters emotional depth. Niven spins a good concept, but his characters are rather two-dimensional. Barnes improves that a lot. Of course, the one I remember is the one that Niven drafted, couldn't make 'work', and gave up on, then gave to Steven Barnes to see if he could fix it; Niven himself acknowledges that what it turned out the story needed was heart.)
I've always been turned off reading Steven Barnes-alone stuff because, well, it always seems to be novels. Or novellas, or just really long stories, in anthologies. I have a tendency to look through the index for the stories that are ten pages or less. I've since been diagnosed with ADHD - I suspect there is a connection.
According to the Internet, Samuel R. Delaney is both black and gay. I think I vaguely knew the black part; I was surprised by the gay part. And yet, he's a dude I've read mention of for as long as I can remember.
An odd sidenote: Most of what I know of both of them, as individuals, comes from reading Larry Niven's various commentaries in some of his short story anthologies. Niven never mentions the race of either of them, that I recall, but speaks in admiring tones of both of them.
Which suggests that Niven thinks of them as talented sf-dudes, in theory.
Except that this is Larry Niven, who is, as a white, heterosexual American male who has been wealthy all his life, about as soaked in privilege as it is possible to get, and who not-that-long-ago made some hideously, horrifically problematic comments as part of the Homeland Security-attached panel of science fiction authors (no, really; the idea is that they are supposed to be good at thinking about creative solutions to problems).
But it's hard to make that case, without a hell of a lot of context, because that statement, from the rich-from-birth descendant of oil tycoons and the like, from someone as privilege-sodden as Niven? It's terrible.
Which is why I understand the pain of people seeing favourite authors fail, because if I had to name a favourite science fiction author of my own (in terms of authors I read for the science fiction factor), it would probably be him.
(Overall favourite: probably Anne McCaffrey. If anyone has any instances to cite of Anne being a horrible person, I don't right now want to know, because she's always seemed to be one of those people who's not perfect, but tries to be inclusive, and to fail better next time when she does screw up, and Pern novels were my great escape from a really, really shitty childhood, please don't take that away from me. Seriously. My childhood was horrible, and Pern made me happy. I don't think I could handle losing that right now.)
Ahem. Anyway, yes. Niven's Known Space series, especially, was just cool. There were a wide range of varied cultures, there was genuine science, there were stories based on interesting corners of the known universe. There Is A Tide, and Neutron Star - his stories are based on ideas, and here and there an overt attempt to mess with assumptions about melanin levels.
One of his major Known Space characters is an albino - they're fairly common on the planet he comes from. Various historical factors meant that that particular genetic variation crops up pretty often amongst the people of his world. However, he takes melanin tablets, and spends most of his time being very dark-skinned, because it's more convenient; skin colour is largely a cosmetic choice, in his Known Space series, and since there's a rich diversity of cultures, and he has aliens who aren't actually funny-looking humans, I kind of loved his world, and didn't notice the major gap that now I can't help but think of:
There are no Hispanic/Latino/what-have-you people that I can think of. Black characters, both by choice and by nature? Yes. Including having the cultural aspect of not-being-white be relevant and meaningful, for black-and-from-Earth characters. Asians? Well, there's Louis Wu, but it's hard to make a cultural case for him - thinking about it, there's an element of Earth = America in Niven's work, which... ew. But Louis Wu is very much himself, because he's too old (multiple centuries), too well-travelled (all over Known Space), to fit quite in with any Earth cultural category. He's spent too much time alone, or with aliens, and he's kind of an entity unto himself.
Mostly, though, skin colour is black and white and other - which can be anything, because cosmetic skin colour choices are serious business - and culture is American or alien or colony-world.
I haven't read any of these in many years, mind you - I might not be remembering that well, and it could be better or worse than I get from my recollection of the standout, memorable parts. But it's kind of a gaping hole now that I do think about it.
I still think he's written some damn good stories, both his sf and his fantasy - the Warlock stories, with his mechanic for magic, are really kind of brilliant - but I fear, now, that beneath his genial demeanour, in his comments on his field, he may in fact have a very, very ugly bias.
One of the things with Race/Mammothfail, for me, is realising:
1) That I have lost touch with sf/F quite thoroughly. I think the most recent writer I've developed a love for is Connie Willis.
2) That I didn't really engage with print fandom before, either.
Most of the names that have come up in recent discussions are just completely unfamiliar to me, or familiar in it-turns-out inaccurate ways. I thought Scalzi was just a blogger; I had some vague inclination that he was a novelist too, but from his comments on his blog I'd decided that, for my tastes, he was likely to be a very bad one, and dismissed him out of hand. I'd never heard of Elizabeth Bear, although it turned out at least one of my friends had read at least one of her books. I don't think I know anyone who's read anything by Shetterly, but on the other hand, based on the things he writes online... I don't think anyone I know would actually want to.
However, some names are familiar to me, and I've been learning things I never considered about them before. Steven Barnes is black, apparently. The only stuff of his I've read was co-written with Larry Niven; I'm not sure how, or if, that fact alters my perception of those stories. (The biggest role he seems to play in co-writing with Larry Niven is giving characters emotional depth. Niven spins a good concept, but his characters are rather two-dimensional. Barnes improves that a lot. Of course, the one I remember is the one that Niven drafted, couldn't make 'work', and gave up on, then gave to Steven Barnes to see if he could fix it; Niven himself acknowledges that what it turned out the story needed was heart.)
I've always been turned off reading Steven Barnes-alone stuff because, well, it always seems to be novels. Or novellas, or just really long stories, in anthologies. I have a tendency to look through the index for the stories that are ten pages or less. I've since been diagnosed with ADHD - I suspect there is a connection.
According to the Internet, Samuel R. Delaney is both black and gay. I think I vaguely knew the black part; I was surprised by the gay part. And yet, he's a dude I've read mention of for as long as I can remember.
An odd sidenote: Most of what I know of both of them, as individuals, comes from reading Larry Niven's various commentaries in some of his short story anthologies. Niven never mentions the race of either of them, that I recall, but speaks in admiring tones of both of them.
Which suggests that Niven thinks of them as talented sf-dudes, in theory.
Except that this is Larry Niven, who is, as a white, heterosexual American male who has been wealthy all his life, about as soaked in privilege as it is possible to get, and who not-that-long-ago made some hideously, horrifically problematic comments as part of the Homeland Security-attached panel of science fiction authors (no, really; the idea is that they are supposed to be good at thinking about creative solutions to problems).
Niven said a good way to help hospitals stem financial losses is to spread rumors in Spanish within the Latino community that emergency rooms are killing patients in order to harvest their organs for transplants.You know, I desperately want Niven to have been taking the piss here. For this to have been some kind of bitchy meta-commentary on something, taken out of context.
"The problem [of hospitals going broke] is hugely exaggerated by illegal aliens who aren't going to pay for anything anyway," Niven said.
"Do you know how politically incorrect you are?" Pournelle asked.
"I know it may not be possible to use this solution, but it does work," Niven replied.
But it's hard to make that case, without a hell of a lot of context, because that statement, from the rich-from-birth descendant of oil tycoons and the like, from someone as privilege-sodden as Niven? It's terrible.
Which is why I understand the pain of people seeing favourite authors fail, because if I had to name a favourite science fiction author of my own (in terms of authors I read for the science fiction factor), it would probably be him.
(Overall favourite: probably Anne McCaffrey. If anyone has any instances to cite of Anne being a horrible person, I don't right now want to know, because she's always seemed to be one of those people who's not perfect, but tries to be inclusive, and to fail better next time when she does screw up, and Pern novels were my great escape from a really, really shitty childhood, please don't take that away from me. Seriously. My childhood was horrible, and Pern made me happy. I don't think I could handle losing that right now.)
Ahem. Anyway, yes. Niven's Known Space series, especially, was just cool. There were a wide range of varied cultures, there was genuine science, there were stories based on interesting corners of the known universe. There Is A Tide, and Neutron Star - his stories are based on ideas, and here and there an overt attempt to mess with assumptions about melanin levels.
One of his major Known Space characters is an albino - they're fairly common on the planet he comes from. Various historical factors meant that that particular genetic variation crops up pretty often amongst the people of his world. However, he takes melanin tablets, and spends most of his time being very dark-skinned, because it's more convenient; skin colour is largely a cosmetic choice, in his Known Space series, and since there's a rich diversity of cultures, and he has aliens who aren't actually funny-looking humans, I kind of loved his world, and didn't notice the major gap that now I can't help but think of:
There are no Hispanic/Latino/what-have-you people that I can think of. Black characters, both by choice and by nature? Yes. Including having the cultural aspect of not-being-white be relevant and meaningful, for black-and-from-Earth characters. Asians? Well, there's Louis Wu, but it's hard to make a cultural case for him - thinking about it, there's an element of Earth = America in Niven's work, which... ew. But Louis Wu is very much himself, because he's too old (multiple centuries), too well-travelled (all over Known Space), to fit quite in with any Earth cultural category. He's spent too much time alone, or with aliens, and he's kind of an entity unto himself.
Mostly, though, skin colour is black and white and other - which can be anything, because cosmetic skin colour choices are serious business - and culture is American or alien or colony-world.
I haven't read any of these in many years, mind you - I might not be remembering that well, and it could be better or worse than I get from my recollection of the standout, memorable parts. But it's kind of a gaping hole now that I do think about it.
I still think he's written some damn good stories, both his sf and his fantasy - the Warlock stories, with his mechanic for magic, are really kind of brilliant - but I fear, now, that beneath his genial demeanour, in his comments on his field, he may in fact have a very, very ugly bias.
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(*)Goes into mental tangent about the rarity of GLBT protagonists in sff
EDIT: Huh Homosexuality in speculative fiction on Wikipedia is interesting.
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The sad part is that, in my subjective experience anyway, SFF has more GLTB characters than mainstream fiction.
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It's just possible that it was a joke in poor taste -- there's a plotline in one of his Known Space books that *does* involve killing people in order to harvest their organs (in that case, it was the government widely broadening the application of the death penalty and essentially using criminals as a continuous supply of organ donors) so he might have been referencing his own books.
Jerry Pournelle gets points from me for at least kind of calling him on it, though. Though thinking back on it, I'm not sure what I would make of his Janissaries series if I were reading it now.
That said, the fact that Stephen Barnes has worked with Niven only increases my desire to read his stuff (my local Barnes & Nobles hates me and doesn't have any copies of his alternate history series where Africa ends up conquering Europe instead of the other 'way round. I may have to resort to Amazon). Beowulf Shaeffer was one of my fictional heroes back in tenth grade.
If anyone has any instances to cite of Anne being a horrible person, I don't right now want to know
There was one instance of controvercy that I know of, but it was a decade or more ago and wasn't race-related (or the kind of deliberately nasty and bullying behavior some professional authors have engaged in this Spring). Still, I wouldn't go typing her name into google or asking around, because it does come up in fannish conversations occasionally, the way the "Marion Zimmer Bradley got sued by a fan over fanfic" story does.
Pern was a massive part of my childhood, too. I totally wanted to be Lessa when I was eight (I used to wish desperately for long, black hair and grey eyes). The fact that the blue & green riders' relationships never stuck me as unusual or especially worthy of comment even at age nine was probably A Sign that slash was in my future.
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If it's a different one: I will continue to think it's that one. >.>
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There are a lot of those RPGs, too, though I've searched in vain for a long time for a Pern RPG to read that offers me anything like what I really want to read --something where the Weyrs are set up the way they are in the books, but with more slash (i.e. blue & green riders as the focus, not in the background). All the ones I find seem to be full of female green riders and largely devoid the same kind of examination of the Weyr system and what it actually entails that A Companion to Wolves has. I like having more female characters, but not at the expense of turning all the slash potential into het.
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Not the t*ntp*g thing? Because even there, from what little I've seen that seems to have played out less as "author says horrible bigoted things and offends fans" and more "author says something so ludicrously batshit that fans just go 'ooooookay' and drop the subject, except for periodical mockery after the fact"...
Pern was a massive part of my childhood, too. I totally wanted to be Lessa when I was eight (I used to wish desperately for long, black hair and grey eyes). The fact that the blue & green riders' relationships never stuck me as unusual or especially worthy of comment even at age nine was probably A Sign that slash was in my future.
Hee, yes, I was another one of those kids eating up Pern books like candy and TOTALLY missing all of the sexual subtext. Although in my case, I barely even noticed the blue and green riders, and my early Slasher Signs at that age were fixations on hurt/comfort scenes in Conan Doyle and Tolkien: in retrospect, Holmes/Watson and Maedhros/Fingon were my first slash OTPs.
(And here I am *mumblety* decades later, still shipping angsty scarred redheads and ridiculously over-competent brunets... *laughs*)
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SF writers old and new
niven is among that group of oldtimer SF writers who're widely seen in print fandom as having had their brain eaten, leaving only crank ideas where once there was amazing imagination. pournelle is libertarian, and niven (who collaborated with him on some major works) used to share his politics (dunno about now), so a lot of the crank ideas were likely present before his brain got eaten.
shit!rly is actually not a bad writer, surprisingly enough. i'm keeping dogland on my shelves despite never wanting to talk to him again.
elizabeth bear is quite good, and really tries in her fiction. so does monette. *sigh*. man, racefail has been so disappointing from the point of view of having found new writers who seem to be doing a much better job of writing diverse characters than most of the old guard, and then realizing that their insight goes only skin deep.
Re: SF writers old and new
Pournelle has always bugged me for two reasons:
1) I don't like his style. Niven and Pournelle is not as good as Niven alone; therefore, I don't want to read Pournelle alone.
2) He is responsible for a sentence in The Mote In God's Eye that, in N Space (I think), Niven singles out as having been written by Pournelle and being an awesome enough sentence that they changed some cosmology to make it work.
Whereas that is the one sentence in the book, that, when I read it *before* reading the commentary, leapt out at me as being jarringly, memorably awful. So Pournelle produces a really cringeworthy moment in an otherwise very interesting book.
As for Shetterly, I just don't think I would enjoy his books at all. Not least because I did an entire university course that was more or less about exactly this, I habitually analyse the subtextual sociopolitical content of a book or story, and I just can't imagine him writing anything I wouldn't find infuriating.
*googles*
Dogland, by the reviews I'm looking at, is magical realism around history and race relations.
You know, without knowing anything about the compatibility of our reading tastes, I have to say: enjoy, but I'm not touching that without gloves in case I catch something. I just don't think Shetterly could touch any of those topics without pissing me off really a lot.